“it will be measured to you”
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. - Matthew 7:1-2
Those famous words give Christians an important principle for life: if you judge someone by some standard, be prepared to be held to that same standard. To do something while judging it in others is hypocrisy (verse 5). For Christian leaders, the bar is even higher, as they are called to be “above reproach.”
So I wanted to list out some things that I saw the leaders judge as sin. They either called people to change these things, rebuked them outright, or even asked people to leave over them. I share these to show: look at the expansiveness of their willingness to call out things in others. Look how many things they believed were worth changing and investing in. And then read Leaving the Network, the r/leavingthenetwork subreddit, or my own story and ask yourself: are all the things they are accused of really less significant than the things they themselves called out in others?
I’d like to say a few words before anyone tries to say “but Jeff, aren’t you judging here?” Specifically - the principle here is don’t judge someone by a standard you can’t be held to. Adam Young (LCSW, MDiv) does a good job with this passage in episode 72 of his The Place we Find Ourselves podcast. The episode is titled “Judging others: Is it ok to judge those who have harmed me?” “Don’t judge” is a common silencing attack toward abuse survivors. Next, I discuss my own sins of abuse at length in my own letter - I have attempted to examine myself and found that I committed many serious sins. Finally, these aren’t my measuring sticks below - I even disagree with a number of them. These are the sticks the leaders used, and therefore should be measured by.
Before I begin, it’s worth noting that Luke Williams, Lead Pastor at Vista Church, once told me (Fall 2020) that with all the scandals about pastors going on in the world, it seemed like the only thing you had to do to be a “good pastor” was “don’t quit, and don’t have an affair.” If that’s the bar, then it’s no wonder no apologies are being made. However, that’s not the bar the bible gives, and it’s not the bar Luke was using to judge Landon Nagata (Former Staff Pastor, Vista Church) at the very same time, which is what I’ll cover first…
Landon’s Removal as Pastor
Landon was removed as a pastor in late 2020. While the church was only told that “Landon will be transitioning to an administrative role,” Landon told me himself that he was removed. The circumstances were not made public (a violation of 1 Timothy 5:20-21 which requires public rebuke for a elder persisting in sin), and I am only relaying what Landon told me. If Landon lied to me, then the below is false, but such a thing would demonstrate the impact of non-compliance with 1 Timothy 5:20-21 - the possibility that the removed leader could spread a false narrative and that the church may not be on guard for whatever the actual behavior was. I’ve considered long and hard whether or not to share this and, in the end, decided it’s fair to have it in the open.
A word on gossip. I don’t share this to shame Landon (I believe it actually exonerates him of some of worse fears people may have), therefore I do not believe it falls under the spirit of biblical warnings against gossip. Furthermore, it simply is quite relevant to everything going on now.
Landon told me that while out of town on vacation, he had consumed “a few drinks.” He explicitly confirmed that he had not gotten drunk but characterized it as “buzzed.” No sinful behavior was said to have followed. He said this whole scenario had happened on two separate vacations.
Furthermore, he said that Luke only found out about each incident when he’d asked Landon some questions. Landon said he had not gone and told Luke immediately what happened but did not lie when these questions came up after each incident.
It was the second occurrence that got Landon removed as a pastor.
I do not believe that Landon was qualified to be a pastor when he was named to the post to begin with. He was immature, not yet “able to teach,” and occasionally betrayed a possible “love of money.” In short, he was a man in his twenties. I hold none of that against him, and it was just wrong to throw him into this role.
However, he was removed for any of those reasons, but rather was seemingly removed for at least one of the following:
Drinking - which is not a biblically prohibited behavior. Paul actually instructs Timothy to drink. The specific qualification for elders is that they are “not given to much wine,” which would imply that they’re not a drunkard. There is no evidence that Landon disqualified himself on this.
Failing to follow an extra-biblical prohibition given by a leader - I think Paul crushes this in Galatians and Romans 14. Paul is angry at the Galatians for having submitted to unnecessary rules, and says that such a thing is “nullifying grace” and “another gospel.” In Romans 14, he specifically states that those with varying consciences are to bear with one another. Landon had consumed alcohol on vacation, not in the presence of anyone in the church. He didn’t post about it on social media. This seems like he was considerate of those for whom alcohol consumption might have been a “stumbling block.” When a leader tries to lay an extra-biblical rule on you, I think Paul would say you should not accept it. Again, see the excellent 9marks article on conscience binding. This article changed my life.
Failing to proactively divulge all of his behavior to his leader - in light of all that’s been said, it seems like this is actually the thing he was removed for. But “loyalty” and “transparency” are not qualifications of elders in any relevant passage, especially when it comes to divulging compliance with an extra-biblical command to begin with.
I believe his removal for any of the above was unjust and incorrect. That said, even if you agree that the removal is correct, it’s hard to imagine that any pastor could stand up to such strict scrutiny.
Again - if Landon was lying to me, all of the above was invalid, but it would draw into perspective the leaders failure to rebuke him publicly before all.
Finally, it’s exceedingly important to note the following: Landon needing to be removed as a pastor starkly demonstrates the fallibility in leaders who choose new pastors. I knew many who were concerned about Landon’s immaturity. The pastors do not have special infallible insight from Jesus on who they should select. They are making their own decisions and claiming it’s Jesus’ will. I personally believe this is an example of, “taking the Lord’s name in vain.” There was never any apology to the church for having made him a pastor. There was never any acknowledgment that they were wrong. I believe in fact that the reason his dismissal was swept under the rug (only announced at a sparsely attended Team meeting) was that Luke was embarrassed at the need to remove Landon.
And finally, lest anyone think I have an axe to grind with Landon: I defended him regularly, saying it would be exciting to see him grow, and asking people to give him space to do so. I even offered to be in his small group to be someone older that he could lead, vowing that I would make myself “easy to lead” so that he could practice. Any time that I remotely challenged his authority I apologized directly to him, and sometimes to Luke for not having respected his chosen pastor. Even in the end, I saw that after Landon had transitioned off of the Vista staff, they still had him serving every week as the serving team lead before and after service. My wife and I volunteered to step in and take the load after I reached out to Landon to see if he wanted out (he did). Landon and his wife did drop me on social media after my story came out. I don’t begrudge him this - he was and appears to still be highly loyal to Luke.
One more time - I haven’t shared this to make Landon look bad, and in fact I hope that it exonerates him of worse fears for what he had done.
Excommunicable
Consider these in light of whether or not the leaders are disqualified. Some of these seem like sinful behavior worthy of correction to me. Others do not. None seem worthy of excommunication without proper process (Matthew 18:15-17). People were asked to leave for:
Gossip - repeated statements by Steve Morgan (Network Leader, Lead Pastor at Joshua Church) that this was absolutely not going to be tolerated in the church.
Quarrelsomeness - I was instructed by Luke to tell someone they shouldn’t come back because they were being “divisive.” Specifically, he told me that if they didn’t apologize, that “you know what to do,” and that “every small group leader has to take that bullet sometime.” I agree that they were being divisive, and had called them out on it personally, but to kick them out seemed extreme and no due process was followed. In fact, when I spoke to the person and they were apologetic, I told Luke we were all good. Luke responded that he thought I was too optimistic about people.
Having ideas that aren’t what the church wants to do: Suggesting that there be a women’s ministry, expressed politely and with offers to help
Disbelief in Election: Maybe not excommunicable, but likely enough to deny membership. See below about not pursuing membership being potentially excommunicable after some time.
Longing for a specific donut (?): A statement that the person’s favorite donut wasn’t there. Seriously. Steve Morgan, at Blue Sky, relayed a story in which he asked a newer guy how he was doing. The man responded “well, you didn’t have my favorite donut today.” And Steve said he asked the man to leave the church. To be honest, the most plausible read of the man’s comment to me would be in a joking tone out of nervousness at talking to the lead pastor who was 6’5" and carried quite the presence. I know I’ve said an inappropriate joke in similar circumstances before. Either way, this is excommunication on a hair trigger with absolutely nothing resembling due process, even according to bylaws (which require the elder board’s agreement), let alone the bible. Steve’s point in this story was absolutely this: don’t complain.
Being homeless/poor. The reddit has reports of even non-disruptive homeless people being asked to leave.
Not pursuing membership. Apparently at Blue Sky church, people were pushed out simply for not becoming members.
Rebuked or just expected to change
The following list included actual rebukes or expectations to change (the line between these is hard to distinguish). Still - see if the behaviors the leaders have demonstrated are consistent with these. Luke specifically told me once that I should be more “attentive” to particular areas of my life. Whether or not the leaders would “rebuke” these things, they saw them as things people should be “attentive” to. The question: are they being as attentive when they consider how to treat others?
Attending bars to evangelize - Steve Morgan openly stated that “he didn’t understand why someone would do this” as it was “so unwise” (paraphrasing, but this was the point). One can only imagine what he would think of someone just going to a bar to hang out and have a drink.
Carrying a heavy object by yourself during teardown instead of getting help (I’m 6’2”, the object was well within my abilities to carry and I had done so many times before)
Not being at church 15 minutes early
Not keeping your eyes open when you prayed for others
Failing to give full 10% tithes on all income
Getting a tattoo
Drinking in many different circumstances
Talking about politics on social media
Reading a book by Wayne Grudem that Luke had referenced repeatedly (Politics According to the Bible)
Women coloring their hair
Doing yoga
Refusing to divulge the names of those who expressed concerns about the church
Failing to get a haircut every two weeks
Failing to inform the worship leader early enough that you’d be traveling for Christmas (a message that went out to the whole worship team after some did not)
Talking too much about football or watching too much football (men)
Spending too much time on pinterest (women)
Failing to spend enough time in the bible or praying
Inconsistent small group attendance
Also spending time at another Christian group
Listening to a lot of Christian podcasts and having things to say about them.
Watching a secular TV show that was influencing the pastor’s speech patterns.
Trying to discuss a recent Christian podcast with friends.
Trying to prove to the pastor that you didn’t want to control everything by telling him you weren’t sure whether he prayed to the right member of the trinity when he prayed on Sunday mornings but never planned to ask and hadn’t researched it at all because you just didn’t care. Luke got hung up on this for at least 30 minutes - he was very upset. I still don’t understand why his reaction wasn’t like “Oh, why wouldn’t you ask? I’ve actually spent a fair amount of time researching that and am happy to share what I’ve found!”
Using a rhetorical question to make a point with a pastor, specifically “You want people to be learning how to pray, right?” (see previous).
Also, a shocking challenge from Luke during that conversation: “Why are you even noticing what I’m praying?” I swear that’s accurate, or a generous paraphrase. God will judge me if I am lying here.
Luke told me once that Steve had yelled at pastors in the network for eating unhealthy food too much.
Single women moving into a spare room at a married couple’s house
Luke once told me that another pastor in the network had called or texted him incredibly excited that he had resisted staring a woman’s low-cut shirt.
A small group leader apparently wasn’t checking in with Luke often enough.
An Asian small group leader had a style that was “too androgynous” and he needed to learn to dress more masculine. The style was popular among Asian men his age.
Questioning the leaders commitment to the Bible after they mistaught it.
Voicing that women could be better served
Volunteering for any specific role
In Closing
And of course, there are many more from the stories that have been published. Email me at not.overcome@outlook.com if you have more, if you want - I can add more to the list.
If the above list sounds humorous, that’s not my intent. I agree that it sounds funny when reading it now - but that’s simply because the list is absurd. I’ve intentionally avoided snark or sarcasm in my tone in any of it.
You may feel that I’m picking nits here. But that’s the point: I’m not picking nits. They are. And Jesus says that they are to be measured by the measure they use for others.
My view (for what it’s worth, which isn’t much) is that the network was both overly legalistic in how they controlled others and insufficiently attentive to how the treated others. That is, precisely by laying these burdens on others, they were failing to exercise their roles as elders well.